Debating Iraq: The Two Souls of the Left and those BBC Presenters

On BBC Radio 4's Today programme (15 December) Liberal Democrat Foreign Affairs spokesman Sir Menzies Campbell gave his point of view on Iraq and Ann Clwyd (the Prime Minister Special Envoy on Human Rights to Iraq, and Joint President of Labour Friends of Iraq) responded. The exchanges are worth listening to. They reveal the two souls of the left on Iraq.

Menzies Campbell was very pessimistic and offered no ideas on moving forward. He did a good impression of an erudite version of Sgt. Fraser from Dad's Army ('We're All Doomed! We're All Doomed, I tell yee!'). He saw nothing positive in post-Saddam Iraq. He called political life in Saddam's Iraq 'organised' and 'dangerous' while political life in post-Saddam Iraq 'disorganised' and 'dangerous', quite as if there had been no real change.

And this on the day election campaigning begins officially and the day after the discovery of another mass grave at Sulaimaniya. He claimed that 'not one serious Sunni party has registered for the elections', a claim contradicted by the very reports carried on the Today programme only minutes before. Menzies Campbell finished by saying 'Its a brave man who says that Iraqis are better off' post-Saddam.

Ann Clwyd pointed out that the Foreign Affairs spokesman of the Liberal Democrats, who pronounces on Iraq on a daily basis, has never been to Iraq since Saddam fell (Clwyd has been eight times). She spoke of the real problems in Iraq but also of the 'strengthening of civil society' and the 'enthusiasm for elections'.

The Today Presenter, James Naughtie, acted like an attorney for Menzies-Campbell, restated his arguments, doubted the number of mass graves that have been discovered in Iraq, and directed his remaining question to...the abuse of prisoners by the Americans. Anne Clwyd dealt with each question in turn, spelling out the terrible realities of the 'killing fields' of Saddam and of the need for all prisoners to receive ’the proper treatment to which they are entitled'. But Naughtie had done what the BBC presenters routinely do: direct all discussion to the perfidy of the Americans and doubts about whether the whole effort is worth it.

To hear the clip scroll down to 08.42 (Alan Johnson)

here